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	<title>Comments on: Chris Langham bail reveals rotten police system</title>
	<link>http://kierenmccarthy.co.uk/2006/04/27/chris-langham-bail-reveals-rotten-police-system/</link>
	<description>An infuriatingly infrequently updated reflection on the Internet, the US, and life in general</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 08:59:31 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>by: Kieren</title>
		<link>http://kierenmccarthy.co.uk/2006/04/27/chris-langham-bail-reveals-rotten-police-system/#comment-149869</link>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Jan 2008 08:44:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://kierenmccarthy.co.uk/2006/04/27/chris-langham-bail-reveals-rotten-police-system/#comment-149869</guid>
					<description>I'm closing this comment thread now. Thank you everyone for your comments and  an interesting discussion.

Kieren</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m closing this comment thread now. Thank you everyone for your comments and  an interesting discussion.</p>
<p>Kieren
</p>
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		<title>by: pete</title>
		<link>http://kierenmccarthy.co.uk/2006/04/27/chris-langham-bail-reveals-rotten-police-system/#comment-148104</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jan 2008 00:48:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://kierenmccarthy.co.uk/2006/04/27/chris-langham-bail-reveals-rotten-police-system/#comment-148104</guid>
					<description>From what I can gather, Langham didn't pay to access the images. Blaming him for any abuse depicted in the images would require demonstration of the mechanism by which he incited their creation. If someone pays to access images of recent child abuse, this could be argued. If someone belongs to a 'paedophile ring' in which members incite each other to commit abuse, record and distribute it, there again is a mechanism could be demonstrated. In Langham's case, I see no reason why he should bear responsibility for the abuse depicted. His actions could be shown, in any way, to contribute to the cause.
As far as I can see, the only harm Langham did was to invade the privacy of the children depicted in the images. Unpleasant enough, but not hugely harmful as far as I can see. He is extremely unlikely to meet any of those children and they will probably never be aware that he viewed those images. Had he distributed them, that invasion would have been more serious, but I don't believe any such charge was brought against him.

Another, more general, point to raise is that, according to the Copine report, 85-90% of indecent images of children on the internet are at least 10-15 years old. This seems to be completely at odds with the 'accepted truth' that the production of child pornography has increased eponentially since the arrival of the internet. The poster above talks of an 'industry' being fuelled, but is there any evidence of such an 'industry'? 
I understand that myriad organisations have claimed that there's a child porn industry worth $20billion a year. I find this impossible to believe. There are about a billion people with internet access... they would each need to spend $20 a year. I don't know how many people per year pay for such images, but I would assume it's a couple of million at most, meaning that each of them would have to spend tens of thousands of pounds per year on child pornography. Absurd, yet this figure continues to be bandied around as an accepted truth.
What we really need is for good journalists to look into all of this to find out the truth of the matter. Unfortunately, were they to do so, they would be guilty of a variety of crimes and would be locked up. As it is, we are stuck with accounts that just don't add up. 
Someone needs to ask questions about what evidence there is for such claims, and why normal legal process doesn't apply in cases like Langham's as well as unpicking the incredibly woolly logic behind the crusade against those who download child porn and behind sentencing applied in our courts. It seems insane that someone can be sentenced to years behind bars and lifetime monitoring by the police for looking at a picture. Even worse is the fact that people who aren't even guilty of looking at a picture can suffer the same fate, as has happened with many of those caught up in Operation Ore.
I find it deeply disturbing that logic, evidence and due process (which should surely be the cornerstones of any legal system) all seem to be abandoned in any case with a whiff of terrorism or paedophilia. The general public have always been a potential mob of pitchfork-weilding witchhunters but it seems that, in any case involving terrorism or child porn, the legal system and the media become equally unhinged and unreasonable. The way it's escalating, with thousands of pages of new legislation being churned out each year, I dread to think what kind of world we'll be living in a few years down the line. Presumably thousands of people who enjoy a little bondage will be on the sex offenders' register once the government passes the planned laws against porn with violent/bondage content. No doubt they will then be denied access to their children and will find it impossible to get a job. When I was at college, the first jurisprudence lecture law students would attend was on the Spanner case - brought against a group of sado-masochists who enjoyed things like having their scrotum nailed to a table. The thrust of the lecture was that a lawyer must  get over his/her moral squeamishness about something most people find abhorrent and deal with the logic. Harm must be demonstrated, it's not enough to lock people up because you find - in the Spanner case - homosexual sado-masochism distasteful. It's sad that the principle seems to have been lost.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From what I can gather, Langham didn&#8217;t pay to access the images. Blaming him for any abuse depicted in the images would require demonstration of the mechanism by which he incited their creation. If someone pays to access images of recent child abuse, this could be argued. If someone belongs to a &#8216;paedophile ring&#8217; in which members incite each other to commit abuse, record and distribute it, there again is a mechanism could be demonstrated. In Langham&#8217;s case, I see no reason why he should bear responsibility for the abuse depicted. His actions could be shown, in any way, to contribute to the cause.<br />
As far as I can see, the only harm Langham did was to invade the privacy of the children depicted in the images. Unpleasant enough, but not hugely harmful as far as I can see. He is extremely unlikely to meet any of those children and they will probably never be aware that he viewed those images. Had he distributed them, that invasion would have been more serious, but I don&#8217;t believe any such charge was brought against him.</p>
<p>Another, more general, point to raise is that, according to the Copine report, 85-90% of indecent images of children on the internet are at least 10-15 years old. This seems to be completely at odds with the &#8216;accepted truth&#8217; that the production of child pornography has increased eponentially since the arrival of the internet. The poster above talks of an &#8216;industry&#8217; being fuelled, but is there any evidence of such an &#8216;industry&#8217;?<br />
I understand that myriad organisations have claimed that there&#8217;s a child porn industry worth $20billion a year. I find this impossible to believe. There are about a billion people with internet access&#8230; they would each need to spend $20 a year. I don&#8217;t know how many people per year pay for such images, but I would assume it&#8217;s a couple of million at most, meaning that each of them would have to spend tens of thousands of pounds per year on child pornography. Absurd, yet this figure continues to be bandied around as an accepted truth.<br />
What we really need is for good journalists to look into all of this to find out the truth of the matter. Unfortunately, were they to do so, they would be guilty of a variety of crimes and would be locked up. As it is, we are stuck with accounts that just don&#8217;t add up.<br />
Someone needs to ask questions about what evidence there is for such claims, and why normal legal process doesn&#8217;t apply in cases like Langham&#8217;s as well as unpicking the incredibly woolly logic behind the crusade against those who download child porn and behind sentencing applied in our courts. It seems insane that someone can be sentenced to years behind bars and lifetime monitoring by the police for looking at a picture. Even worse is the fact that people who aren&#8217;t even guilty of looking at a picture can suffer the same fate, as has happened with many of those caught up in Operation Ore.<br />
I find it deeply disturbing that logic, evidence and due process (which should surely be the cornerstones of any legal system) all seem to be abandoned in any case with a whiff of terrorism or paedophilia. The general public have always been a potential mob of pitchfork-weilding witchhunters but it seems that, in any case involving terrorism or child porn, the legal system and the media become equally unhinged and unreasonable. The way it&#8217;s escalating, with thousands of pages of new legislation being churned out each year, I dread to think what kind of world we&#8217;ll be living in a few years down the line. Presumably thousands of people who enjoy a little bondage will be on the sex offenders&#8217; register once the government passes the planned laws against porn with violent/bondage content. No doubt they will then be denied access to their children and will find it impossible to get a job. When I was at college, the first jurisprudence lecture law students would attend was on the Spanner case - brought against a group of sado-masochists who enjoyed things like having their scrotum nailed to a table. The thrust of the lecture was that a lawyer must  get over his/her moral squeamishness about something most people find abhorrent and deal with the logic. Harm must be demonstrated, it&#8217;s not enough to lock people up because you find - in the Spanner case - homosexual sado-masochism distasteful. It&#8217;s sad that the principle seems to have been lost.
</p>
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		<title>by: someone</title>
		<link>http://kierenmccarthy.co.uk/2006/04/27/chris-langham-bail-reveals-rotten-police-system/#comment-145175</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jan 2008 00:19:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://kierenmccarthy.co.uk/2006/04/27/chris-langham-bail-reveals-rotten-police-system/#comment-145175</guid>
					<description>its very simple
looking at and downloading indecent images of children and child porn is illegal
chris langham is guilty and has never taken responsibility for this fact
his reasons are superfluous to the facts
and bely a man desperate to get people to condone his actions
another simple fact, buying this material is directly responsible for the industry creating this material
so looking at and buying child porn makes you an abuser
an accomplice to a crime on your behalf for your twisted pleasure
chris langham is an intelligent man, an alcoholic with many years experience of the therapeutic process, a man capable of self enquiry, a man capable of seeking help 
yet he did not seek help
he indulged 
he labeled it research
we all know you don't need to look at child porn to fill out a comedy character
you don't even need to look at child porn to write a book about paedophiles 
you can read mountains of material about abused children, the abusers etc... 
i'm totally disheartened that the emphasis of this crisis is not seen
child porn and the systematic abuse of children for money exists and people are so removed from humanity to seek it out
what solutions can there be for this sad sad situation
i don't give a flying f*** about chris langham he is old enough and wise enough, and has made enough money in his privileged life to get on 
what about these children
i seriously object to his presence on TV again, i feel if he wants to write a book then people can choose if they want to go out and buy it, they don't need to have him on TV... he doesn't deserve that privilege.. 
he committed a crime, a terrible crime - a senseless crime one for which he is not truly sorry, that he has not accepted responsibility for and one that he clearly does not have any remorse..
a truly remorseful man would accept responsibility, admit his crime, and then instead of demanding attention for him, would devote himself to the task of cleaning up the situation... 
it will be a sad situation if he were to benefit from this affair in any way...
oh and if he was abused, which i seriously doubt, there is no way he would want to look at images of abuse.. and why has no one mentioned that he was abused as a boy, but he's got child porn of girls.. ? if it were a cathartic thing why not look at child porn of young boys?  
he is lyiing
he is bad at lying
if this can't bring him to his knees and to a great transformation, then he will surely grow into a greater monster, and time will reveal he will commit again... he wants to be found out... we have a responsibility to not buy into his lies and mirror this back to him for his own growth..
but it would appear this is not what is happening.. media tv etc.. supporters.. 
madness</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>its very simple<br />
looking at and downloading indecent images of children and child porn is illegal<br />
chris langham is guilty and has never taken responsibility for this fact<br />
his reasons are superfluous to the facts<br />
and bely a man desperate to get people to condone his actions<br />
another simple fact, buying this material is directly responsible for the industry creating this material<br />
so looking at and buying child porn makes you an abuser<br />
an accomplice to a crime on your behalf for your twisted pleasure<br />
chris langham is an intelligent man, an alcoholic with many years experience of the therapeutic process, a man capable of self enquiry, a man capable of seeking help<br />
yet he did not seek help<br />
he indulged<br />
he labeled it research<br />
we all know you don&#8217;t need to look at child porn to fill out a comedy character<br />
you don&#8217;t even need to look at child porn to write a book about paedophiles<br />
you can read mountains of material about abused children, the abusers etc&#8230;<br />
i&#8217;m totally disheartened that the emphasis of this crisis is not seen<br />
child porn and the systematic abuse of children for money exists and people are so removed from humanity to seek it out<br />
what solutions can there be for this sad sad situation<br />
i don&#8217;t give a flying f*** about chris langham he is old enough and wise enough, and has made enough money in his privileged life to get on<br />
what about these children<br />
i seriously object to his presence on TV again, i feel if he wants to write a book then people can choose if they want to go out and buy it, they don&#8217;t need to have him on TV&#8230; he doesn&#8217;t deserve that privilege..<br />
he committed a crime, a terrible crime - a senseless crime one for which he is not truly sorry, that he has not accepted responsibility for and one that he clearly does not have any remorse..<br />
a truly remorseful man would accept responsibility, admit his crime, and then instead of demanding attention for him, would devote himself to the task of cleaning up the situation&#8230;<br />
it will be a sad situation if he were to benefit from this affair in any way&#8230;<br />
oh and if he was abused, which i seriously doubt, there is no way he would want to look at images of abuse.. and why has no one mentioned that he was abused as a boy, but he&#8217;s got child porn of girls.. ? if it were a cathartic thing why not look at child porn of young boys?<br />
he is lyiing<br />
he is bad at lying<br />
if this can&#8217;t bring him to his knees and to a great transformation, then he will surely grow into a greater monster, and time will reveal he will commit again&#8230; he wants to be found out&#8230; we have a responsibility to not buy into his lies and mirror this back to him for his own growth..<br />
but it would appear this is not what is happening.. media tv etc.. supporters..<br />
madness
</p>
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		<title>by: EK</title>
		<link>http://kierenmccarthy.co.uk/2006/04/27/chris-langham-bail-reveals-rotten-police-system/#comment-144912</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jan 2008 02:29:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://kierenmccarthy.co.uk/2006/04/27/chris-langham-bail-reveals-rotten-police-system/#comment-144912</guid>
					<description>Okay, lets dispense with some of the academics histrionics for once. Fact is, Chris Langham (by his own admission) looked at pics of underage individuals in a sexual context. 
That's all he did. He didn't go out and abuse anyone, he looked at pictures (albeit distasteful ones). 

Despite the assurances of some very dodgy research and statistics, there is in fact no correlation between the suggestion that someone who looks at crap is going to go out and actually do it. 

So Chris is guilty of a human character trait older than the desire to mate; curiosity. Lets be real, this hysteria isn't about the 'poor children', but about control. Control in that some people believe it's right and proper to control and micromanage every aspect of everyone else's lives. Up to and beyond controlling even human curiosity.
What next? The need to pee?
Take it from me, it wont be long before those fulltime campaigners will have us all putting our hands up before we're allowed bathroom breaks before too long.

Chris Langham has always had - and will continue to have - my support. He is no less of a person for having screwed up and his only screw up was not realising that curiosity like everything else these days, is a privilege that belongs to someone else.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Okay, lets dispense with some of the academics histrionics for once. Fact is, Chris Langham (by his own admission) looked at pics of underage individuals in a sexual context.<br />
That&#8217;s all he did. He didn&#8217;t go out and abuse anyone, he looked at pictures (albeit distasteful ones). </p>
<p>Despite the assurances of some very dodgy research and statistics, there is in fact no correlation between the suggestion that someone who looks at crap is going to go out and actually do it. </p>
<p>So Chris is guilty of a human character trait older than the desire to mate; curiosity. Lets be real, this hysteria isn&#8217;t about the &#8216;poor children&#8217;, but about control. Control in that some people believe it&#8217;s right and proper to control and micromanage every aspect of everyone else&#8217;s lives. Up to and beyond controlling even human curiosity.<br />
What next? The need to pee?<br />
Take it from me, it wont be long before those fulltime campaigners will have us all putting our hands up before we&#8217;re allowed bathroom breaks before too long.</p>
<p>Chris Langham has always had - and will continue to have - my support. He is no less of a person for having screwed up and his only screw up was not realising that curiosity like everything else these days, is a privilege that belongs to someone else.
</p>
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		<title>by: richard</title>
		<link>http://kierenmccarthy.co.uk/2006/04/27/chris-langham-bail-reveals-rotten-police-system/#comment-133145</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Dec 2007 06:48:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://kierenmccarthy.co.uk/2006/04/27/chris-langham-bail-reveals-rotten-police-system/#comment-133145</guid>
					<description>Hi Kieren , I'm wondering as I'm sure others are , what your thoughts are now regarding chris Langham and the circumstances surrounding his case. Also what were your thoughts on his sky tv interview where he defended himself and denied once more being a paeophile, do you still support him?
I would also be intereseted to know what your thoughts were about Tim Walkers case and if you did get the full story.
kind regards</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Kieren , I&#8217;m wondering as I&#8217;m sure others are , what your thoughts are now regarding chris Langham and the circumstances surrounding his case. Also what were your thoughts on his sky tv interview where he defended himself and denied once more being a paeophile, do you still support him?<br />
I would also be intereseted to know what your thoughts were about Tim Walkers case and if you did get the full story.<br />
kind regards
</p>
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		<title>by: richard</title>
		<link>http://kierenmccarthy.co.uk/2006/04/27/chris-langham-bail-reveals-rotten-police-system/#comment-133143</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Dec 2007 06:32:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://kierenmccarthy.co.uk/2006/04/27/chris-langham-bail-reveals-rotten-police-system/#comment-133143</guid>
					<description>Another soft soaping BLIND person not even seeing the picture</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another soft soaping BLIND person not even seeing the picture
</p>
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		<title>by: richard</title>
		<link>http://kierenmccarthy.co.uk/2006/04/27/chris-langham-bail-reveals-rotten-police-system/#comment-131223</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Nov 2007 14:33:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://kierenmccarthy.co.uk/2006/04/27/chris-langham-bail-reveals-rotten-police-system/#comment-131223</guid>
					<description>and still no kieren</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>and still no kieren
</p>
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		<title>by: richard</title>
		<link>http://kierenmccarthy.co.uk/2006/04/27/chris-langham-bail-reveals-rotten-police-system/#comment-131222</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Nov 2007 14:31:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://kierenmccarthy.co.uk/2006/04/27/chris-langham-bail-reveals-rotten-police-system/#comment-131222</guid>
					<description>your last comment Pam says it all really............
you &quot;know that chris Langham is not a paeophile&quot; poor deluded woman, but dont worry your in good company here...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>your last comment Pam says it all really&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;<br />
you &#8220;know that chris Langham is not a paeophile&#8221; poor deluded woman, but dont worry your in good company here&#8230;
</p>
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		<title>by: richard</title>
		<link>http://kierenmccarthy.co.uk/2006/04/27/chris-langham-bail-reveals-rotten-police-system/#comment-128473</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Nov 2007 11:38:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://kierenmccarthy.co.uk/2006/04/27/chris-langham-bail-reveals-rotten-police-system/#comment-128473</guid>
					<description>it would seem that if something in your blog is of personal gratification to you an immediate response is posted and you do *have* to get involved , but curiously you seem to have lost interest with this one....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>it would seem that if something in your blog is of personal gratification to you an immediate response is posted and you do *have* to get involved , but curiously you seem to have lost interest with this one&#8230;.
</p>
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		<title>by: Kieren</title>
		<link>http://kierenmccarthy.co.uk/2006/04/27/chris-langham-bail-reveals-rotten-police-system/#comment-128208</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Nov 2007 17:42:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://kierenmccarthy.co.uk/2006/04/27/chris-langham-bail-reveals-rotten-police-system/#comment-128208</guid>
					<description>I'm just reading others' comments. Do I *have* to get involved because it's my blog? Don't know. Don't see why.


Kieren</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m just reading others&#8217; comments. Do I *have* to get involved because it&#8217;s my blog? Don&#8217;t know. Don&#8217;t see why.</p>
<p>Kieren
</p>
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